WTTW at 7PM: Chief Judge Tim Evans discusses the role of bail in city’s violence

ANCHOR: last weekend was one of Chicago’s deadliest of the year with seven people shot fatally and 52 wounded. Mayor Lightfoot and police Superintendent Eddie Johnson have increasingly turned their ire towards judges and they want to know why so many people arrested end up on the street to possibly commit another crime. is this the heart of the issue? or is it scapegoating the city's violence problem? here to talk about the role of bail and judges is chief judge of the cook county circuit court Tim Evans. welcome back to "chicago tonight".

EVANS: thank you very much. nice to be here.

ANCHOR: and the complaint from the mayor and the superintendent say judges are setting bail for violent offenders too low and too many get back on the streets to commit another crime. what is your response to that?

EVANS: that is a misunderstanding of what bail is about. really this is the first stage after the arrest. and the person is presumed innocent in this particular stage. and that goes back centuries in our country. and it is the foundation of our criminal court system. so, for somebody to assume just because an arrest has taken place that they should be required to stay in jail is misunderstanding of what the bail system is all about.

ANCHOR: as you said they are innocent until proven guilty. there's been changes to the bond system and how judges determine what bond level to set. what have the changes been?

EVANS: that is right. we use a public assessment system that takes a look at risk rather than some of the stories that people used to hear. we take a look to see whether the person is likely to come back to court when he is supposed to; or whether that person is going to engage in some conduct that would have a deleterious effect on the public while the case is pending. if the answer is no to those two factors then we are obligated to release the person so the person can be home, can prepare for his case, can support his family, can keep his job, can go to school. whatever life might present that person is entitled to that.

ANCHOR: and what the mayor and the superintendent are saying they put together a gun offender dashboard and 62% of people arrested for any sort of gun crime were let out on bond and half had previous felony convictions and 6% committed a new crime when they were out. are those numbers concerning?

EVANS: well, they really don't focus on what they should focus on in my view. They talk about arrests. that means that people have not yet been convicted and they should not be treated as if they had been convicted. and in those points on the dashboard they show that less than 3% of the people who they have arrested get rearrested again for violence. so it's not telling the full story.

ANCHOR: although if 3% some of those people engage in some shooting activity, it can be significant?

EVANS: well, shooting is different than simply making an arrest because somebody possesses a gun for example. UUW is a misnomer.

ANCHOR: UUW this is unlawful use of a weapon?

EVANS: that is correct. but it really does not have a victim. it is just the possession of a weapon when one is not supposed to have one.

ANCHOR: and what the mayor is claiming is that uuw should be included in violent offenses and it's not included in violent offenses?

EVANS: in fairness to the mayor i talked to her yesterday. we are, i think, traveling the same road. she is certainly in support of bond reform and made it clear that she is against the use of money bail and we are going to be meeting to talk really about what the arrest process is all about. and what bail truly means. and its presumption of innocence that i'm talking about. and to impose a bond on that procedure some kind of a punishment or the assessment process that talks about accountability, is wrong. this is early in the process. this is not the end of the process. accountability and punishment takes place only after the person has been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

ANCHOR: did you tell her concerns with her words and the superintendent's words talking about judges and bail and blaming that for some of the problem?

EVANS: we had a great discussion and i did talk to her about that and she admitted she is still looking into the statistics and had not had a chance to see all the data. she invited me to come to her office and I’m looking forward to doing that and I will bring the data so she can see that 99% of the people who we release engage in no violent conduct while they are out and while their case is pending. and i think she will be impressed by those statistics.

ANCHOR: one of the things on the dashboard shows even for gun offenses the most common bail amount is between 0-$10,000. should judges consider higher bond amounts? when it's $10,000 the person has to post $1,000 of that.

EVANS: that is correct. and money bonds should be the last thing that a court would consider. As I say it's only when the risk is not a clear and present danger, but nevertheless the risk is higher risk than one would expect. we look at low risks, moderate risks and higher risks. in the case of a higher risk, you might see a money bond used and you might see this $10,000 that you talked about. but consider that. these people are presumed innocent. and yet they have to come up with $1,000 to have that innocence recognized and embraced. so no, our judges do not immediately do that. they take a look in a scientific way and they do it in a way that does not impose any additional danger on the public.

ANCHOR: at the same time, the numbers of those held pretrial without bond has gone up. explain why that is?

EVANS: well, i entered an order back in september of 2017 that focused on the law that i've described to you. and we have seen the daily jail population plummet from about 10,000 down to a little bit more than 5,000. but at the same time, we see more people being held no bail because we protect the public just as we are removing people from jails who don't need to be in the jail while their case is pending. it is a two-edged sword but it cuts best to help the public have a safe environment and at the same time give people who are arrested an opportunity to embrace that presumption of innocence that i talked about.

ANCHOR: in the discussion with the mayor she supports ending cash bail. does that mean for some nonviolent gun offenses too that she would support no cash bail for just gun possession?

EVANS: well, we didn't get that far. she is anxious to hear the statistics that i shared with you that i will be sharing with her. and she's i think possessed of an open mind. no, this is not something that i think will end up on two different sides. i think once she sees the statistics she will embrace them just as she has the concept of a change in bail reform.

ANCHOR: one of the things the mayor told us about this tool that you are talking about that judges use to determine who is going to be a flight risk and who will show up for court who is a danger to their community that is how they determine how they set bail, she says it is a uniform standard and what works in texas or portland or wherever shouldn't be the same thing in chicago.

EVANS: well, these things have been tested not only in the small area that you mentioned but 750,000 cases throughout the country have been tested. and we have internally tested the system here. and we find that it is the prediction of what somebody might do and that is all it is. the probability of something happening. we consider this test, the public safety assessment tool, but also 36 other factors in the state statute. and we listen to what the state's attorney has to say and what the public defender has to say or the private counsel that represents the defendant. and then the judge makes a decision. it's not one thing. it's all of those things. and the judge embraces fairness and justice and that is what our judges have been doing. i support the judges who follow the law on a day by day basis. and i think when we finish our discussions with the mayor she will as well.

ANCHOR: do you think they are being unfairly scapegoated?

EVANS: i would not call it scapegoating. i would say it is a reflection that people don't know what the law provides. and if they are not willing to take a look at the beginning of the case as just that and distinguish it from the end of the case, when accountability might be properly assessed that is when the problem arises.

ANCHOR: and again we are just talking about pretrial people who are innocent until proven guilty.

EVANS: that is correct.

ANCHOR: chief judge tim evans thank you for being here.

From: Marielle Sainvilus <Marielle.Sainvilus@cityofchicago.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 7:09:09 PM
To: Patrick Mullane <Patrick.Mullane@cityofchicago.org>
Cc: Alyssa Cinatl <Alyssa.Cinatl@cityofchicago.org>
Subject: RE: Judge Evans on Chicago Tonight